[Mb-civic] god will punish bush

Sun Nov 14 20:11:08 PST 2004

Lyle:

Don't mince words - tell me what you really think.

What I find interesting is that, hidden within the (very un-Christian) anger and insult in your response is the fact that you apparently agree with my basic premise about the statement I responded to.  Because you now modify it by saying "Christ helps those who help others" (something I would agree with, for the most part), and ascribe the original statement ("God helps those who help themselves") to people like Dick Cheney.  Enough said there.

As for being the "unofficial Christian spokesman for this group," I have never said anything of the sort, and I challenge you to find that statement anywhere in the archives.  If you do, I'll eat my rosary...(OK, I don't have a rosary 'cause I'm not Catholic; I'll find something else to eat).  Indeed, such an accusation is absurd since it is simply not in my belief or my nature to claim to be the "official" spokesperson for anything, much less Christianity or this group.  If anything, I am more likely to have referred to myself as the "token minister," since that it a more probable truth.

As for accusations - even veiled ones - comparing me to "racist" missionaries, if that is the level at which you want to engage me, I decline to be baited.  Suffice it to say that that would be like calling Gandhi a "warmonger"; since you know little or nothing of my history, you cannot possibly know how inappropriate your remark is.

As for my beliefs - "dogma," "doctrine," call it what you will - I have made no effort to hide them: they are well known here, and they do not comport with what you (and many others) rail at vis-a-vis the "Christian Right" et al.  And I will reiterate - yet again - that this is where many of you make a big mistake.

There are right-wing, conservative, evangelical Christians, and there are centrist (and even left-wing), moderate (even liberal), evangelical Christians.  And, statistically, the latter outnumber the former, even in Catholicism.  Given this, when you lump all the Christians together in a big bowl marked "Christian Right" - simply because you think that every evangelical Christian must be a right-wing, conservative, pro-Bush Christian - all you do is alienate an enormous number of Christians who might otherwise become allies.

Keep it up, Lyle.  You are doing more than you know to derail any valuable, positive, progressive discourse with potential allies.

Peace.

---- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lyle K'ang 
  To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] god will punish bush

  Stop preaching to me Ian-you are actually showing your ignorance by being ONLY Christian in your values or have you forgotten Universal values of the Spirit.

  You do not own your GOD!
  YOU do not own his teachings-you are ONLY to follow his teachings the BEST YOU know how-period, and from the looks of it you're following it word for word, letter for letter according to a million and one interpretations. Remember follow it by the letter and you too will become a fanatic or pretty close to it.

  Are you one of those that believe Jesus is coming back-Oh! by the way, there is evidence he did, in 68 A.D. Where is that written?

  Why should he come again, when you and I can't even discuss religion. You know where I stand on this man-made junk that has killed millions throughout the centuries...and where was your sweet Jesus then?

  You probably don't know what you're talking about either-just reciting dogma, intellectual banter, and indoctrination...

  Get off the missionary kick-too many people around the World are dead because of the missionary kick.

  I suppose you'll say and so many on the other hand are saved ones because of the Gospel. Saved from whom and saved from what-darkness? Who said these children were dark anyway, Oh! Skin color, therefore ignorant? 

  White missionaries-give me a break, brother. I can preach that the LIGHT OF HEAVEN is shining on those who follow me (I mean that), and I'll get a lot of followers, is that what you're trying to do brother, have followers?

  Since when, did anybody anoint you king interpretor? Your statement a while back saying you were the unofficial Christian spokesman for this group just proves my point-white, hypocritical, no vision individuals' pretending to be in the LIGHT! 

  The World no matter what religion, has too many of those. Too bad, too sad-watch out you'll end up like BUSH being an instrument of you know who...Look around on the city streets at the homeless, the children being molested, the truck loads being brought in to America as sex slaves-some only 9 years old and younger. 

  Christ helps those who help others...rightfully so, Chenny believes 'Christ helps those that help themselves'...So many profess to be good christians (political) and every one is debunked-not one have I met lately that professes to be close to Christ in anyway, a true follower of Christ.

  I have met thousands because of their good works and there I saw Christ. No announcements that are closer, more spiritual, a.k.a Brighter...

  Look inside your own heart before you start preaching, really it's a sin in God's eyes-go scripture chase, like this is seminary...

  If it's not in the scriptures it must be wrong-My GOD, that means everything Buddha, The Mayans Gods', The Hawaiian Kahunas', The Rest of the Ancient World (Older than Christianity by the way), is wrong?

  Like I said, you and I are guest's here and I or you or both can leave anytime...you are not self annointed nor appointed....you are simply a guest here delivery YOUR message and not Christ's, period.

  Lyle K'ang
  Enterprise Insights: 
  Tools for a Brighter Tomorrow...
  http://www.SiloManagement.com

  Please note: message attached

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  Lyle:

  Although I agree with you in principle, please remember that "God helps those who help themselves" is not Scriptural, and it actually anti-Scripture: God helps those who have faith in Him and rely on Him.  Obviously, this does not mean we are supposed to simply sit on our duffs: there is certainly a time for action.  But if you "believe," then faith and prayer come first - and then feel free to take action if you must.

  Peace.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Lyle K'ang 
    To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
    Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:35 PM
    Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] god will punish bush

    How true you are my friends, we must stop the war but never stop whining about the elections. If you (we) don't hammer, who will? Our God? God helps those that help themselves.

    Lyle K'ang
    Enterprise Insights: 
    Tools for a Brighter Tomorrow...
    http://www.SiloManagement.com

    Please note: message attached

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    it is horrible beyond horrible
    rapidly escalating to a rape of nanking/holocaust status
    but respectfully baker
    45% ish of all americans are not like this
    unfortunately about 50% are
    situation very very grave
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: peter baker 
      To: Michael Butler 
      Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:29 PM
      Subject: [Mb-civic] god will punish bush

      bear
      ......these are the words of a fallujah woman...after the disgusting american 'clean-up'..her words are on the lips of at least 97% of all iraqis....iraq is about as big a fuck-up as one could possibly imagine...the iraqi people just want to be rid of the americans and 'their friends'....when will idiots like blair and bush stop telling blatant lies "the majority of the iraqi people want a democracy", "we are fighting for the iraqi people" etc. etc. ad infinitum.???...falluja is just one city what does ww3 intend...more fallujas going on and on into the foreseeable future ????more deaths, more suffering.??...i'd suggest that it's about time everyone got back on track...the election was lost, stop whining about it. the war in iraq must be stopped if america is to survive...as i have predicted time and time again the days of the 'american empire' are numbered unless the american people wake up.....mad baker

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