[Mb-civic] Go easy on Blair

[Jack Sullivan]

Dear CB:

I like your mother. The commonweal is the point, and public problem solving is the open air theatre for elected democratic representatives to function.
We could more easily understand public policy makers if we called them actors in a theatre space -- playing out society's themes of conventional wisdom. 
Conventional wisdom is the patch cloth of received knowledge that seldom suits the problem solving need. Genuine leaders weave new cloth from history.

So CB, your mother and I agree that a "leader" deals with the common good.

Politics is a hobby of mine. I once thought about it as a vocation. Thomas Jefferson attracted me. His wife had my mother's name and root origins. 
I had opportunity. I let it go for the less strenuous activity of being a father to 12 children. Being a father shares attributes with a public policy person. Both live with their mistakes.
Correct judgment in the moment only reveals its meaning over time. Young people emerge guided by an ethos for the commonweal only after a sustained effort. 
Imagine helping a child find meaning grounded in the Commonweal and you have some sense of the impossibility that a world leader confronts. The Jesuits teach it. 

I have learned that Politics is all bickering unless the sweep of history can be perceived in the work of the actors revealing their interpretations of hope. 

Particularly, with due regard to constraints, their work is a vast opportunity to become a Michelangelo or a Mussolini. The meaning of their work is more visible in the wake of their deeds. A thankless profession compensated by false privilege and threats from pride, the danger lurks always. Those who stand for politics enter the arena of life to be judged for what most are unable or like me, unwilling to do. Maybe one of my 12, steeled in the ethos of the common good, will feel the nerve to interpret it to the world. 

The first step will deal with the problem of rejection like the man from Nazareth.  Most of the good ones go out onto the public stage with an image or persona so the average voter
can accept them from within the comfort space of conventional wisdom, while moving the public beyond that space into a new vision. Usually a theory or vision about the future beyond the current reality. 

  a.. I think of the Kennedys who betrayed so much. 
  b.. I remember Johnson who perhaps redeemed the mistake of blood letting in Vietnam in the massive social agenda that perhaps only he was able to politically enact. From a blood and gore point of view, many Black soldiers conscripted (not volunteered) into Vietnam as cannon fodder for the false pride and erroneous wisdom of military might, gained for their descendents the right to vote, sit in a restaurant, drink from a public water fountain, etc. perhaps forever into the future. I am reading The Known World. Jesse Jackson claims Johnson as the best American President - ever! Few others so less affected by his social agenda would agree. 
Congratulations CB, we have managed with the help of your mother's wisdom, to get past the barrage of hand wringing about the current bloodbath for destiny's sake. 
This surgical approach is required to understand a single universal value that we agree is a sine qua non, in a world class leader.

Are there any other benchmark qualities for elected, civic leadership? Aristotle's Poetics is a reliable source about human culture and the nature of drama. 
 After all, we are involved in a serious drama, and the best leaders are really actors in a world class plot. 

 Beware, CB, where all this is may be leading... Quo Vadis?





PS It will help the process of discourse - if we both agree and stipulate to 'concise our replies' by omitting that paid US soldiers are dying as part of their profession; and that Iraqi civilian death and destruction is the policy cost for some undetermined vision of the future shared by Bush and Blair. What I would like to ascertain - dispassionately if possible - is what is the unstated objective behind all their common bravado... 

  a..    Is it akin to Roosevelt's hidden agenda to use Pearl Harbour to stimulate the American economy out of the Great Depression and other benefits urged by Churchill which we     now applaud from this historical vantage point that elevated the USA to a world class super power? Have the French always valued their cuisine over courage?

  a.. Did Truman's decision to drop "the bomb" that killed so many people mercilessly, that started the Cold War, that exported Capitalism, that gave Japan a privileged position in the Far East as the wedge between the two giant Communist powers? Thus giving Japan the means to their own end? 

  a.. Is there something about starting a "Donnybrook" (excuse my Irish) in such a woebegotten places like Iraq and Afghanistan that affects the way the border between Israel and the Palestinians is quietly evolving, or the way that Saudi Arabia is being prepared for change management, or the relationship of France and Germany are aligning with Russia, Indeed that the Euro is in decline? That the new Pope is picking up where the old one left off? 

So much to talk about and so little time. We must keep it simple. What do we look for in a leader, What is the effective policy of Western survival against the festering evil of terrorism born out of Saudi Arabia and deflected into Israel and on to the twin towers and now London? 

CB we need a root and branch analysis of the future of capital society...to comprehend what is going on in Iraq. War is hell...what is policy behind it that was shared by those that went before us...Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, (Ford - ah hem) Reagan (Pope John and Thatcher) Bush 1 (Our Own and Dearest William Jefferson) Clinton and now Bush 2...do you see any consistent, effective patterns of world-class, elected, political management - amidst so many mistakes of judgement?


Dublinjack

PS We must cut this down for the sake of our other lives.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheeseburger" <maxfury at granderiver.net>
To: "mb-civic" <mb-civic at islandlists.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: [Mb-civic] Go easy on Blair


> Re:  Go easy on Blair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jack wrote:
> 
> 
> ======
> Dear Mr Burger:
> 
> Slowly, like a snail racing across the yard, the Cheese is thawing to a
> discussion re: the desirable character of world class leader.
> ========
> 
> 
> While it's not outside my thoughts to describe my personal "desirable
> character of a world class leader", with all the asses running around,
> including Bush and Blair, covered in the blood of Innocents spurted on them
> from standing side by side through a slough of lies, coverups, bombs, and
> dead bodies in, again, a both illegal and concocted out of thin air, it
> would appear to be a waste of time other than for purely academic purposes.
> If I wasn't under quite so much pressure and had more time to sit at a
> keyboard, I would just spit it out.  But, and also, the list of "desirable
> character traits of a world class leader" are already relatively
> well-pronounced, i.e. "one who has The Best Interests of The People and The
> Planet really at heart, and is capable of actually brining to fruition, in
> one manner or another, the salvation of a planet and its inhabitants that
> are going down the toilet collectively like there is no tomorrow".
> 
> But here we have someone in the position of Tony Blair, covered in the blood
> of Innocents or not, having to stand before someone like the G8 and beg for
> salvation in places like Africa which the powers of the G8 to begin with
> raped for Centuries.
> 
> Leadership..?  There is actually still "leadership" on this globe..?  In the
> face of the gigantic influence corporate earth etc etc etc has on just about
> every "Government" in the world, including most of their "Leaders", I don't
> really know anymore if I would call it "Leadership" anymore.
> 
> Who is a "world leader" at this time anyway...?  If it is Bush or Blair,
> they just both took America, Britain, Iraq, and the entire World right to
> the cleaners.
> 
> There, again, remains a whole rather universally acclaimed "List" of what
> "great character traits are desireable in World Leaders" hanging around
> somewhere, but again, looking around, the more I look at "World Leaders",
> the more they appear to simply be actors trying to portray "Great World
> Leaders".
> 
> It's rather pathetic at this time to refer to greatness in "Leadership", at
> least where I am right now, as the "Leaders" of purportedly the 2 most
> "civilized, democratic, etc" countries, the USA and Britain, have just
> finished standing shoulder to shoulder from the very beginning to this
> ruthless Middle Part we are now entering, in a pack of lies, deceptions,
> misdirections, and coverups that resulted in a totally concocted planned-out
> illegal war that has cost scads of Iraqi civilians and American G.I.'s and
> Etc their lives in it, billions of dollars in taxpayers' monies (at least
> American), raked what little reputation America had left of being "Truth
> Seeking Democratic Freedom Lovers Etc" "kind of a country" over the coals of
> Hell itself, and wound up actually fanning the flames of "Terrorism" itself
> by guaranteeing that Iraq itself will now be a breeding ground for it for
> some time to come, just for mild opening cards.
> 
> And I'm supposed to =Respect= such people...?
> 
> And ignore such little things as that above paragraph describes and rather
> point to their "good points"...?
> 
> Just can't do it.
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> In response to Jeffrey Sachs, the US economist, who is in the UK for the G8
> summit, who wrote about Blair:
> 
> Tony Blair showed true leadership yesterday when he declared that the work
> of the G8 summit in addressing poverty and global climate change was now
> more important than ever, that the terrorists would not deflect the work of
> the political leaders in addressing deep economic and ecological problems
> that gravely threaten the planet and that stoke the violence and conflicts
> of our times.
> 
> And you wrote:
> 
> Personally, I could never lower myself to write such slop about those 2, or
> several other, "great world leaders".  Such "praise", at least for Bush,
> remains not only unwarranted, but a continuing catalyst to propel such a man
> who, at least here in America, has fashioned a system to make the poor more
> poor and the rich Gods, if they are not already.  I, personally, don't seem
> to have very much admiration for very many "world leaders" these days, G8,
> etc etc etc, seeing as they got us into all this crap to begin with.  I also
> don't think I would describe "the Iraq war" as "gravely misconceived and
> dangerous".  While that is a pretty good description of it, it remains a
> giant Understatement of the actual situation, as American G.I.s continue to
> come back in body bags, and one-hundred thousand Iraqi Civilians remains
> buried somewhere underneath the dirt.
> 
> I note Jeffery's suggestion, so apropos mine - before London, that Blair is
> a leader when we need one.
> ===========
> 
> 
> The guy, again, just finished helping murder 100,000 civilian men women and
> children in Iraq, and thousands of American G.I.s etc are either horribly
> wounded or still coming back in body bags, years later, with a prediction of
> "a never ending war" there.
> 
> None of that, or the other things that began it or have horribly become the
> results of it which I listed some way above, could have EVER been
> accomplished without Mr. Blair's assistance in 100 years.
> 
> I just can't call people like him, or Bush, "Leaders" anymore, no matter how
> many people see their "Bright Sides".  It's just too sickening personally
> for me to do that, and it is just too great an honor for people who
> literally concoct wars that result in the actual deaths of zillions of
> Innocent Unsuspecting Human Beings.
> 
> If others wish to play the game of "Great World Leaders" in the face of such
> a horrendous collection and array of some of the most murderous global jokes
> about it all going around the entire planet, that surely remains their
> personal privilege I'm sure.  It just makes me too nauseous these late days
> to participate in such a charade.
> 
> 
> 
> ======
> A Cheesy negative sentence avoids a protein-rich constructive analysis.
> ======
> 
> 
> Perhaps you have now had your daily requirement of protein.
> 
> 
> 
> =======
> Could you perhaps take some time and mull over what you positively expect in
> an elected, world-class leader if you meet one?
> =======
> 
> 
> I believe it was either Mark Twain, or a musician, or a comic, or someone,
> who once stated something like "If I can't go to the White House in my
> T-shirt, I'll just stay home and watch TV" or somesuch.
> 
> I think I've already covered this question above somewhere, but I will just
> briefly reference my dying mother's last words.
> 
> The very last words she said to me before she died was "Make the world a
> better place to live, son".
> 
> Something I don't think I'll be able to ever forget, no matter how many
> coke-fiend Freudian clones try to dislodge it.
> 
> Out of all the MANY descriptions that I have heard throughout my life about
> "what positive character traits should a sane, rational, kind person hope
> for in A World Leader", I will have to stick with the dying words of another
> obscure American woman.
> 
> Make the world a better place to live.
> 
> If anyone in a position of "Leadership" =anywhere= on this planet, on =any=
> level, simply Can Not Make The World A Better Place To Live, then they
> should go out and find someone who they sincerely believe can.
> 
> And put them above them, and promote them until they see the =literal
> positive= results actually come to fruition.
> 
> And if they CAN NOT do THAT, then they have no business in the position of
> "Leadership" to begin with.
> 
> 
> And we both know that most "Great World Leaders" don't really exist, it's a
> scam, and don't really deserve the HONOR of such a GIANT title.
> 
> And that's really how the world works and what's going on.
> 
> If somehow you're looking for me to endorse Blair or Bush who just got
> through mass murdering a slough of Innocents in a concocted war they pulled
> out of their butts, it will just never happen.
> 
> Make the world a better place to live, if you can't, find someone who can,
> promote them, if they don't work, find someone else, do it until you get it
> right, if you can't, get the f*ck out of the way and let someone else try.
> 
> We both know that is also not the way this world works either, for the most
> part.
> 
> A majority of the world's populations continue to live in squalor, poverty,
> sickness, and death.
> 
> And ALL "The Great World Leaders" have never been able to change that
> collectively in the entirety of All Of History, so it would appear.
> 
> Instead this planet, and its inhabitants, continue to be sliced up by
> millionaires, billionaires, and zillionaires with definite firm plans to
> continue getting richer, more powerful, more influential, and more mentions
> of them in the history books after they are gone.
> 
> "Greatness" of Leadership seems like 2 words that just no longer go together
> to me in the face of the abject Reality of the History of Earth, and current
> events.
> 
> However, if you are LITERALLY asking me what I would positively like to see
> in a World Leader if I actually MEET one (as you so state in your above
> question), I would at least like the fucker to have washed his hands after
> he has pissed on everything around him before he extends it to me in peace,
> compassion, and good will to all.
> 
> 
> 
> ======
> In a time-space Right Honourable, is destruction in Iraq any different than
> destruction elsewhere - say Hiroshima Japan?
> 
> Dublinjack
> ==========
> 
> 
> 
> If "Great World Leaders" mass-murder 10's or 100's of thousands of innocent
> civilian men women and children and thousands of our own soldiers, will
> anyone remember...?
> 
> In any "continuum", one might imagine (at least on some levels) that
> "destruction" is "destruction" is "destruction".
> 
> If only the daily "mantras", "mandates", of "Great World Leaders" were Make
> The World A Better Place To Live, and Protect The Innocents Of Earth With
> Your Life, this world would be a really neat place to live.
> 
> Instead we get clowns with blood dripping from their fingers.
> 
> With millions of people who will kill for them every step of the way backing
> them to the hilt no matter what.
> 
> Great place to park your car, don't want to live here anymore though.
> 
> It's just too scary a place.
> 
> And "Greatness", in so many instances now, has just become another face of
> Propaganda.
> 
> I don't think what we ALL need to get out of this HUGE fiasco facing our
> meager planet is "Great Leaders" who most of them are charlatans in the
> "Greatness" to begin with and have extremely Great publicists, but rather,
> in the face of all this "Greatness", at this late date of all of history's
> "soothsayers" wildest nightmares coming true before our eyes, we desperately
> need a Miracle.
> 
> I thought it was Great that Mahatma Gandhi fasted and got good stuff to
> happen.
> 
> I didn't think it was Great they shot him in the head.
> 
> I find very little Greatness in "Politicians" these days, whether they are
> referred to as "World Leaders" or not.
> 
> Greatness, while surely is possible in so many fields, avenues, and
> circumstances, even in pigs who might become Politicians, Potentates,
> Leaders, Emperors, Kings, or Etc, I always just attributed to the old lady I
> used to watch scrub the floor at the school each afternoon on her knees.
> 
> p.s.:  Sorry this post is so long, I will try to concise my replies better
> in the future.
> 
> Talking about "Greatness", though, in the blatant face of deceit, treachery,
> treason, and murder, from so many sides, in these current historic days and
> events, always tends to inadvertently find me rambling on about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheeseburger
> 
> .
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mb-civic mailing list
> Mb-civic at islandlists.com
> http://www.islandlists.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mb-civic
> 
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.islandlists.com/pipermail/mb-civic/attachments/20050710/99b30b41/attachment-0001.htm