[Mb-civic] Africans puzzled by Live8

Wed Jul 6 11:41:53 PDT 2005

Lyle:

Thank you for your measured response in light of the (hindsight-noticed) "intensity" of my comments.  Yes, I fully agree with you here: prayer (or meditation) can be, and often is, powerful in and of itself.  However, as you note, for prayer (or "hope") to be that powerful, it must be undertaken in a way that most people are not capable of doing (I am not disparaging those people; simply making an observation).  "Super-focused" and intensive prayer is a difficult thing unless one knows and understands how and why it works, and has the time, energy, patience and inner peace to undertake it.  Monks and other "ascetic" types (whther Christian, Buddhist or other) are, of course, the "perfect" people to undertake such prayer/meditation, since they have that requisite knowledge and understanding.

I guess I was just "ranting" about people who think "hope" operates in a vacuum, and/or who throw money at a cause (or maybe make a phone call or two), and claim to have "adopted" that cause, or have anything but a just-more-than-passing interest in it.

I was also pointing out, since I believe it actually is important, especially "in this day and age," that truly believing in a cause requires action: and sometimes that action can lead to "discomforting" circumstances, such as beating, arrest and/or incarceration (even if only for a night or two).

Such "devotion" is not for everyone, and I understand and appreciate that.  For example, a man or woman with a spouse, children, a house, etc. is probably not able to risk the adverse consequences of CD or other serious action.  However, ther are many people who could, if they truly believed in the cause, make such a commitment, and risk (at least once, or once in a while) the possibility of such circumstances.  Indeed, I believe that once one has done so - even just once - it actually increases one's focus on the cause.  At least, that was my experience, as getting arrested for my first CD action was a pivotal moment in my socio-political life, and made me even more focused - and active - on critical issues.

Anyway, please forgive me if my "rant" came off as a bit more "passionate" that perhaps it needed to be.  It seems that you and I are very much on the same page here.

Peace!

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lyle K'ang 
  To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 11:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] Africans puzzled by Live8

  Ian, 

  I was not speaking of Jesus, though I may have used his name in places to parallel the potential that man is capable of performing miracles today and right now! 

  It is true 'works without sacrifice is dead' and yes! By all means we must do as much as possible whatever we are capable of doing-I agree!

  What I was referring to is the practice of the Tibetan Buddhist Monks and how they would meditate in those ice caves because of their energy-level that they give off during prayer is immense-causes heat to melt the ice.

  In the same light-they pray in similar fashion and proclaim that their prayers which call upon a higher spirit, stops this earth from going asunder!

  Many have done the transcendental yoga, which you spoke of, or was it Kundalini or Hatha-in any case, the objectivity I wish to promote, discuss and forward to MBCIVIC, is that 'all works are not dead', if all you do is mediate and pray for a changed vision, it will and can happen-that is a truth!

  It takes another group of specialists, if you will, to perform such miracles. Such as Sages, (Christian or otherwise), Indian Medicine men, Hawaiian Kahunas, Chinese prayers and the like-many times these are not your ordinary Christian prayers but more aligned to a CREATOR! 

  I must add this lest I be branded as a traitor for good works: these are not happenstance type of phenomenon, these are very real, powerful and bring change-it is another very powerful belief structure such as Christian, Islam, Taoist, or what have you.

  The secret is to decrease the negative influences that are happening-this can be attacked from all angles but it does no good to be righteous without humility in trying to perform miracles-now does it? That is a form of negativity-which we all subscribe to during bouts or fits and must be aware of.

  Positively, the second part to the secret, as you know, is the act of collective energy which WE call the WE! It is not redundant, it is collective and concentrating-most powerful when in OM circles!

  WE have that much power!

  Lyle Kekahi K'ang, MBA/IM 
  http://silomanagement.blogspot.com/
  http://lyve-oasis.com

  Please note: message attached

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  Lyle:

  No, not without hope.  Hope is a fine thing.  An important thing.  A wonderful, positive thing.  But hope alone does not change hardened hearts, willful tyrants, or war-mongering, power-hungry, rapacious leaders and their crones.

  Do you really think that just sitting on one's duff and "hoping" is going to change the world?  Hey - I can hope and pray with the best of them.  And I do.  But while I may have my head in the clouds, I have my feet planted firmly on the ground, and know that hope must be mixed with reality and action.

  Jesus did not sit around "hoping" that people would come to Him to hear what He had to say: He went to them.  Jesus did not "hope" that people would be healed: He healed them.  Jesus mixed His "hope" with action.  THAT is the Jesus I know and love.  He was "meek," but He expressed righteous indignation when people deserved it (e.g., the Pharisees).  He was "humble," but He did not just sit around twiddling His thumbs and "hoping" that people would see the light: He brought it to them.

  You seem to think that hope and reality are mutually exclusive.  They are not.  They co-exist.  And if we don't understand, accept and work with both of them, then very little in this temporal life will change - certainly not the major issues that require action mixed with hope, love, compassion, etc.

  One does not need to be a cynic to see that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.  And whatever factors we attribute it to - politics, money, power, greed and, yes, even "religion" - we cannot "hope" it all away.

  Enlightenment is not walking around with a beatific smile on one's face, la-la-la-ing about love and hope, and simply expecting things to change.  That is simply willful ignorance or naivete.

  At the risk of seeming to make an enormously dangerous comparison (which I am not), like Jesus I preach and practice love, peace, patience, compassion, charity, selflessness, service, etc.  But also like Jesus I express righteous indignation when it is appropriate.  Like Jesus I can and do sit quietly and meditate, and pray.  But also like Jesus I go out and act when action is required.

  When I ask myself "What would Jesus do?," I do not put the emphasis on His name: "What would Jesus do?"  I put the emphasis where it belongs: "What would Jesus do?"  The difference is important.

  The Jesus I know was not a "cynic," but neither did He naively believe that everything was just hunky-dory.  The Jesus I know was not "overly righteous," but He was not afraid to express righteous indignation when He felt it, and take action when He needed to.  The Jesus I know had oodles of "hope," but He did not sit around thinking that "hope" alone was going to change things.  The Jesus I know was the personification of "humility," but He did not shy away from correcting or rebuking when it was necessary.

  What Jesus are you talking about?

  Peace.

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Lyle K'ang 
    To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
    Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 11:38 PM
    Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] Africans puzzled by Live8

    Cynic! Overly Righteous! Without HOPE! Without Humility! An Expert!

    All of these points make me believe again, that you too need a break from your reality!

    I don't care who you studied with or how well you know the scriptures or your Jesus Christ! You are just another, in the wilderness crying for help.

    Look pass the obvious, my friend and into the Light from where we both came. Hope-Hope-Hope!!! Did you forget this lesson that you just preached, what yesterday???

    As far as Cheesburger goes-he's caught up in too much smoke!!! Poverty and Hopelessness!

    You would do better to teach your flock, instead of joining in on their own delusions...Or are you so-with out base that you give away your own convictions to play politics?

    Lyle Kekahi K'ang, MBA/IM 
    http://silomanagement.blogspot.com/
    http://lyve-oasis.com

    Please note: message attached

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    Lyle:

    With all due respect, what makes you think that any large portion of those people give a rat's ass for poverty, or the Third World in general, or anything that doesn't affect them personally?  They were there to see a re-united Pink Floyd, or their favorite group, or whatever.  Sure, some of them - hopefully many - do care.  And yet even so, how many of those people will go beyond simply "caring" and maybe calling a telephone number, and actually do something - something active, something constructive, maybe even something that will cause them to put their own ass on the line.

    I have to agree with Cheeseburger on this one.  Although I believe I am not being cynical, but realistic.

    There is a difference between what we all did in the 60s and early 70s (and some of you even earlier) with regard to real, constructive action for the causes we believed in and fought for, and what the vast majority of those who attended Live8 (or even watched in on TV) do today.  They sit in their smug cozy homes, writing checks and thinking that that's going to save the world.

    If I were a betting man, I would wager a hundred dollars to your penny that less than 5% (and I'm being generous) of the non-60s/70s people who attended Live8 have ever engaged in civil disobedience, gotten arrested, been handcuffed, and spent some time in a cell.

    Sure, we were all "peace, love, light" and engaging in free sex, listening to CSN&Y, etc.  But all of us also knew when it was time to put those feelings into action - and we were prepared to put our freedom, if not our lives, on the line for them.  I daresay that very, very few of the "new generation" are willing to do that.

    If you remember the movie "The Untouchables" with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery, Connery plays a hard-case cop who convinces Eliott Ness that he can't take on Capone "nicely": that he has to get dirty if he really wants to take him down.  Ness keeps ignoring that advice until Connery is shot down by Capone's men.  As Connery is dying, he tells Ness that the man Ness wants will be at the train station.  With his last breath - full of extreme indignation - Connery almost yells at Ness: "What are you prepared to do about it?"

    That is the only question that matters where "causes" are concerned.  What are you prepared to do about it?  If all you are prepared to do is go to a concert and maybe hold up a placard, or call a telephone number, or write a check, that's fine.  But that is not "taking up a cause."

    The degree to which one believes in and will fight for a cause is determined solely by what they are willing to suffer or sacrifice for that cause.  In my book, if one is not willing to at very least engage in active protest - including civil disobedience, and the very real possibility of beating, arrest and/or jail - then one should just shut up and merrily write that check.  However, if one truly believes in a cause, then one must be willing to die for it.  End of story.

    Yes, it sounds harsh.  And I'm sorry if I'm bursting the "happy bubble" that these people are living in.  But the world is not a happy place.  And all of us know it.

    Ultimately, I think you are so caught up in the seeming similarities between the protest movements of the 60s and the current "movement" that you are not being honest with yourself about the vast differences.

    If the new generation wants to prove itself worthy of the mantle all of us carried as a result of our literal blood, sweat, pain and tears, then let's see if they follow up their "happy time" at Live8 with some real action.  If not, they are worse than poseurs; they are hypocrites and traitors to humanity.

    Peace.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Lyle K'ang 
      To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
      Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 10:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] Africans puzzled by Live8

      I watched it all on T.V. and listened to none-stop XM Radio-

      It was extraordinary!!!!!!!!!!

      Many tears, especially Pink Floyd...

      On the other channels was FOX with a special about the Iran-Nuclear Threat or something like that. They are so sure that Iran has nuclear missles---sound familiar. They even went so far to talk about intervention-you do know, Boeing and others are manufacturing low-yield atomic, bunker-bashing bombs?

      It was the Karl Rove strategy again-while Live 8 was doing its thing.
      Let me tell you a short story-one of the reasons for this concert world wide, was to connect the younger X, Y, crowd with the '60's crowd. In essense, the torch was being passed. The young have a cause now-or another cause. They did get fired up and still are. The truth is about coming together to fight the opposition.

      You guys sound like Republican hacks bashing this fabulous-spiritual display of togetherness. Oh well, you are old fuddy duddies and forgot how it was to be young-full of hope for a cause, fuckin your brains out, and defending Peace, Love-No WAR!

      Or......too stoned to give a crap about everything that's falling down around you!

      In any case, YES!!! I am the prickly-pear cactus walking through a crowded locker room. So, get a life!! Get real--wake up-what did you do today to turn a life around????

      Get on stage and sing your hearts out-in case it passed you bye, the concerts overall lyrics was anti-war; stoned-out, peaceful and full of hope...So don't bring me down with your false crap and how you know better-start a R&B or RnR band and get out there-then make your accusations!!!!

      Practice what you Preach!!!!!! The World needed Live 8 and its ENERGY!!!

      If I read your intentions wrongly, BFD-THINK before you write-stop being hypocrites...

      Lyle Kekahi K'ang, MBA/IM 
      http://silomanagement.blogspot.com/
      http://lyve-oasis.com

      Please note: message attached

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      Harold:

      I hear you, and understand your skepticism.  After all, had Geldof et al taken the money (tens of millions) it took to produce the shows and used it elsewhere, it probably could have bought an entire bag of groceries for millions of people, or medicine et al for millions of others.

      I never understood this whole thing anyway.  Raise awareness?  Anyone who is not aware that there is extreme poverty in the world (from Africa to Appalachia) has been living under a rock somewhere in the Mojave Desert for the past hundred years.

      Peace.
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Harold Sifton 
        To: MB Civic 
        Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 10:25 PM
        Subject: [Mb-civic] Africans puzzled by Live8

        Most Africans are puzzled, yet thankful for Live8 by rich white entertainers.

        http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2005/July/theworld_July70.xml&section=theworld&col=

        Point being, most Africans do not have TV or even are aware of Live8.

        2 billion people did not watch Live8 like the media says, maybe 80 or 90 million if ! Who knows ? I watched parts..... mostly London.

        http://www.live8live.com/

        There were not 1 million people at the Philadelphia show as they said !!

        Great idea, great music by some, but where will the follow up be by the artists .......... ???

        I think this will be more of a celebration of "I was there as a performer, an invited peer recognized by Sir Bob" and a great organization of international production, but the end result for Africa will be minor if anything at all. The celebrity performers will celebrate their effort amongst each other at the following tea parties, but it will have no real outcome other than a great show. Will Africa be saved, no, will the message be remembered, No, will the advertisers, sponsors of the show gain from their onslaught of branding, Yes!! After every song played, there was 3- 4 minutes of advertising, a media bonanza/windfall of ad revenue. If I see another Budweiser ad I will be sick, and I just watched the recaps........

        Will the awareness of the African plight be remembered, No, will this affect G8 decisions, No! Will record/cd sales of performers increase, Yes!

        I am so, so jaded by these celebrity events.......... everyone makes money except those who the charity is for. 

        Harry

        PS Live Aid, hardly any monies, pretty much none went to Africa, yet Sir Bob made millions on royalties...... he stands to make millions more through royalties of Live8, even though it was a free concert. Nobody does anything for free in the entertainment business, money always changes hands, one way or another.

        It was great to see Pink Floyd play , Pete Townsend still plays a mean guitar, and Andréa  Bocelli in Paris can sing a song like no other.

        http://www.live8live.com/theconcerts/index.shtml

        Later, H

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