[Mb-civic] Agnostic
richard haase
hotprojects at nyc.rr.com
Mon Jan 10 16:57:57 PST 2005
but you know lyle what youre leaving out
is ian is a sweet guy
and there is beauty in his christianity
even if christianity itself has certain very negative aspects
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle K'ang
To: mb-civic at islandlists.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: [Mb-civic] Agnostic
Wonderful feedback-I never said I was an aethist. If I did it was my typing not my thoughts. Though, what will round out this group is an aethist.
I believe I have all along said I am agnostic.
What other word should I use besides mean-should I say not coherent to a man I respect. I fear the discussion is not at all at the level we were trying to achieve. Discussion is discussion and not to allow my belief system into the discussion is abhorent.
To continuosly banter and crow about ducumented errors and universally agreed upon factual omissions and untruths is in my guesstamation, not only unreliable as a reverend that purports to lift those moral souls, but incromprehesible to those that fear the brain-washed spirits of the ages of incorrect history.
Yes, I correctly called him 'mean' because of his misjudgement and if I might add, calculated misjudgements because of ego and unrelenting adherence to a mind not able to shift, think in new terms or entertain universal discussions about ALL religious misnomers, beliefs and tortures upon their people. He comes across as a do-gooder and just two weeks ago he changed after dialog was shared between him, myself, Cheesburger, and Richard.
I respect him a lot-but when you wear the clothes you had better be ready to use the title properly. When you take the high road and express everything that you are and quote and equate your life, verse for verse according to the scriptures, I am not impressed at all-even Mother Teresa had more 'b---s' than this guy.
Lyle K'ang,
~~Enterprise Insights: Advanced Tools for Business Communications!~~
http://www.SiloManagement.com
~~Information, Imagination & Musings~~
http://www.Lyve-Oasis.com
Please note: message attached
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I am almost - but not quite - speechless over these exchanges. Intemperate adjectives are being bandied about, particularly, I fear, by Lyle, who I am sure has every one's best interests at heart, although what is to be achieved by calling Ian 'mean', for instance, for the moment escapes me. Actually I do not see how their two viewpoints can easily be reconciled as I am not sure that they are arguing about the same thing. It is not easy, Lyle, if one is discussing dogs (for the sake of argument), if you reply with a polemic about cats. I am not sure either, how you can possibly be an atheist. An agnostic, maybe, a pantheist, perhaps but not, surely, an atheist. You certainly seem to have studied a wide and varied range of beliefs and to have derived some understanding and benefit from many of them and you seem to be able to see in quite straightforward matters, things, which are not immediately visible or obvious to less gifted mortals. In that you have the soul of a poet or a real-estate agent. It occurs to me that you ought to read about the Albigensian heresy, if you have not already done so and/or if you have time. Its adherents, the Cathars, had a very singular view of how to become perfect. I am sure that you would find it interesting.
I think I will stop here before I start writing in tongues. It seems to be contagious.
AlBaraka
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard haase"
To: mb-civic at islandlists.com
Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] Self-Agrandizing? Re: To Lyle
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 05:48:37 -0500
youre an atheist who believes in bright angels lyle?
thats a little unusual
lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle K'ang
To: mb-civic at islandlists.com
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:22 AM
Subject: [Mb-civic] Self-Agrandizing? Re: To Lyle
Tiny Bubbles in the Wine...Makes me happy, makes me feel fine...
Hey what's up guys...as an aethist I believe in many things spiritual but not necessarily a Being or a God like Person. I do know however, that there exists an Energy, a Form, a Discipline and/or a Higher Order.
I do not know if there is a GOD, whether SHE or HE or FORM has GENDER. I personally doubt it though.
I do believe that there is a Counsel of Judges, EVIL and BRIGHT angels as well.
I wish I could be more specific to help you out Ian, but I just have not had a chance nor been given free passage to find out and report back.
1,000,000,000 people you say are going upward-why upward? Where are they going too? Why do you think these 'saved' people are going, when they on earth right now, are very mean like you and not very humble even if you were 100% correct-which by the way, you are most definetly not.
I suppose some of us have the inside tract-pretty nice to be sitting on the right hand of him-eh?
I forget that scripture-as a matter of fact, many people don't even know the scriptures, especially those that perished in the tsunami. I wonder if you think they're going to heaven or not? Probably not -eh? I mean they are not even Christians. Someone told me once that they would get a chance in Heaven to choose Christianity and be saved. WOW! That sounds just like a used car salesman here on earth.
If I know the scriptures real good, does that mean I get a ticket to stand in line, next to you for the rapture? What if I'm a dirty hobo?I'm not making fun here -I'm saying you are sounding like YOU know there's a God right behind that Comet-so let's all take this drug and we'll all meet in heaven. Sounds kinda far-fetched Ian.
I'm still waiting for you to come around and be reality driven instead of telling my friends that they are self-agrandizing, and speaking to me as if I'm a lunatic or heretic. This is not 450 A.D. not the 15th Century-it's going on the 21st last I checked, and don't think I'm going to be tortured by the high Christian priests either.
One last thing-The last time I checked, Christ was not coming because people are immoral towards one another and others pretend they are morally clean when they are not. These people pretend they are followers of Christ and many of them are not nice people. If he came then he would have to take away our free will-he won't do that Ian-that's not the Christ I know.
You use to sound nice-maybe you can be nice again to us all-but I suppose you have a lot of stress on you because it seems you have to be out there proving something that's non-provable.
Why don't you be content with who you are and what you know-just like a Buddha and meditate on the Universe-I do this too-even aetheists meditate like Buddhas. Buddhas don't worship Buddha you know-that's a form of idolatry just as worshipping Jesus Christ is.
Many well-formed and ancient religions worship the essence of the Spirit. Oh well, forgive me for caring...Ian, don't forget to answer my references and questions on scripture quotation I gave you over three weeks ago.
Lyle K'ang,
~~Enterprise Insights: Advanced Tools for Business Communications!~~
http://www.SiloManagement.com
~~Information, Imagination & Musings~~
http://www.Lyve-Oasis.com
Please note: message attached
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please dont call me self aggrandizing and then say peace
not at all
i have a profound problem with certain aspects of organized christianity claiming a monopoly on god
and when you were talking about abjuring the scriptures etc
it just came across as sarcasm
but please dont insult me
as that was not my motivation at all
( and aggrandizing how? )
what would i get out of it?
respectfully i dont find your comments in this instance make much sense
peace to you too
richard haase
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian
To: mb-civic at islandlists.com
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] To Lyle
richard:
If you will note, I deliberately invited Lyle (and, by extension, anyone else, including you) to "feel free to ignore or disdain [the Judeo-Christian] Scripture." Thus, your comments are entirely unnecessary, except for self-aggrandizing purposes.
Peace.
----- Original Message -----
From: richard haase
To: mb-civic at islandlists.com
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] To Lyle
Ian the christian scriptures are not the only ones
and not the only ones that are true
christians do not have a monopoly on god
and in my opinion
that is the great blasphemy of organized christianity
christianity is a true and just path to god
but there are others
including the virtuous atheism
there is no doubt in my mind that a virtuous atheist
goes to heaven
peace
richard haase in nyc
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian
To: Civic
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:02 PM
Subject: [Mb-civic] To Lyle
Lyle:
Blessings and Peace.
Simply for the record, I think I know where you came up with the "150,000" number. If so, you are mixing things up.
Revelation states that, just after the "church" is Raptured (leaving no "Christians" on earth), 144,000 people (not 150,000) - 12,000 from each of the 12 original tribes of Israel - will become "super-evangelists," and will bring as many or more people "to Christ" during the "end times" (i.e., the last seven years) than believed in Christ prior to the Rapture - perhaps 1,000,000,000 or more.
Feel free to ignore or disdain Scripture. But when you do cite it, please try to do so correctly.
Peace.
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