[Mb-civic] Self-Agrandizing? Re: To Lyle

Sun Jan 9 22:55:02 PST 2005

Lyle:

I never used the word "upward"; that is your word.  I used the word "raptured," which does not necessarily imply direction.  Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?

And do you really consider me "mean?"  Is that really a word you would use to describe me?  Is that a word anyone who knows me would use to describe me?  I may be opinionated, I may be stubborn, I may occasionally be a might bit impatient (I only cop to the last one).  But not one person who has ever met me would use the word "mean" to describe me.  It is simply not in my nature to be mean: never has been, never will be.

As for humility, that is something that one works at; one doesn't simply become "100% humble" by accepting Christ.  But one feels the "pull" of humility more tangibly, and tries to improve, just as one tries to improve in any area.  Being Christian does equate with being "perfect"; I have never suggested that, nor do I believe that it is required, much less possible.

No, knowing the Scriptures "real good" does not get you a "place in line"; the only thing that does that is accepting Christ as Savior, repenting for sin, and living in obedience to and comformity with Jesus' ministry.  (I'm simply citing Scripture here; again, you have every right to reject the entire thing.)  As for the "hobo," he has as good a chance as anyone else of getting a "place in line."

Re my comment to Richard that he sounded "self-aggrandizing," that has been cleared up; it was a misunderstanding, and both of us have accepted that.  So why do you use it as a cudgel to beat me with?

As for speaking to you like you're a lunatic or a heretic, nonsense.  I speak to everyone in exactly the same way.  Again, I may feel strongly about my faith and its underlying Scrripture, and I may come across as opinionated and even stubborn.  And I may even be "corrective" where citation of Scripture is concerned.  Yet none of this equates with my addressing you as a "lunatic" (?!) or even a heretic.  I'm not sure why you chose those two words, unless you are subconsciously self-identifying.  And no, I am not "making fun" either.

Ultimately, as I noted in a recent e-mail re our divergent spiritual views, either we will meet in heaven, we will meet in hell, or we won't meet at all...

Peace.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lyle K'ang 
  To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 12:22 AM
  Subject: [Mb-civic] Self-Agrandizing? Re: To Lyle

  Tiny Bubbles in the Wine...Makes me happy, makes me feel fine...

  Hey what's up guys...as an aethist I believe in many things spiritual but not necessarily a Being or a God like Person. I do know however, that there exists an Energy, a Form, a Discipline and/or a Higher Order.

  I do not know if there is a GOD, whether SHE or HE or FORM has GENDER. I personally doubt it though.

  I do believe that there is a Counsel of Judges, EVIL and BRIGHT angels as well.

  I wish I could be more specific to help you out Ian, but I just have not had a chance nor been given free passage to find out and report back.

  1,000,000,000 people you say are going upward-why upward? Where are they going too? Why do you think these 'saved' people are going, when they on earth right now, are very mean like you and not very humble even if you were 100% correct-which by the way, you are most definetly not.

  I suppose some of us have the inside tract-pretty nice to be sitting on the right hand of him-eh?

  I forget that scripture-as a matter of fact, many people don't even know the scriptures, especially those that perished in the tsunami. I wonder if you think they're going to heaven or not? Probably not -eh? I mean they are not even Christians. Someone told me once that they would get a chance in Heaven to choose Christianity and be saved. WOW! That sounds just like a used car salesman here on earth.

  If I know the scriptures real good, does that mean I get a ticket to stand in line, next to you for the rapture? What if I'm a dirty hobo?I'm not making fun here -I'm saying you are sounding like YOU know there's a God right behind that Comet-so let's all take this drug and we'll all meet in heaven. Sounds kinda far-fetched Ian.

  I'm still waiting for you to come around and be reality driven instead of telling my friends that they are self-agrandizing, and speaking to me as if I'm a lunatic or heretic. This is not 450 A.D. not the 15th Century-it's going on the 21st last I checked, and don't think I'm going to be tortured by the high Christian priests either.

  One last thing-The last time I checked, Christ was not coming because people are immoral towards one another and others pretend they are morally clean when they are not. These people pretend they are followers of Christ and many of them are not nice people. If he came then he would have to take away our free will-he won't do that Ian-that's not the Christ I know.

  You use to sound nice-maybe you can be nice again to us all-but I suppose you have a lot of stress on you because it seems you have to be out there proving something that's non-provable.

  Why don't you be content with who you are and what you know-just like a Buddha and meditate on the Universe-I do this too-even aetheists meditate like Buddhas. Buddhas don't worship Buddha you know-that's a form of idolatry just as worshipping Jesus Christ is.

  Many well-formed and ancient religions worship the essence of the Spirit. Oh well, forgive me for caring...Ian, don't forget to answer my references and questions on scripture quotation I gave you over three weeks ago.

  Lyle K'ang,
  ~~Enterprise Insights: Advanced Tools for Business Communications!~~
  http://www.SiloManagement.com
  ~~Information, Imagination & Musings~~ 
  http://www.Lyve-Oasis.com 

  Please note: message attached

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  please dont call me self aggrandizing and then say peace
  not at all
  i have a profound problem with certain aspects of organized christianity claiming a monopoly on god
  and when you were talking about abjuring the scriptures etc
  it just came across as sarcasm
  but please dont insult me
  as that was not my motivation at all
  ( and aggrandizing how? )
  what would i get out of it?
  respectfully i dont find your comments in this instance  make much sense

  peace to you too
  richard haase
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ian 
    To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:15 PM
    Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] To Lyle

    richard:

    If you will note, I deliberately invited Lyle (and, by extension, anyone else, including you) to "feel free to ignore or disdain [the Judeo-Christian] Scripture."  Thus, your comments are entirely unnecessary, except for self-aggrandizing purposes.

    Peace.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: richard haase 
      To: mb-civic at islandlists.com 
      Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:54 PM
      Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] To Lyle

      Ian the christian scriptures are not the only ones
      and not the only ones that are true
      christians do not have a monopoly on god
      and in my opinion
      that is the great blasphemy of organized christianity
      christianity is a true and just path to god
      but there are others
      including the virtuous atheism
      there is no doubt in my mind that a virtuous atheist
      goes to heaven

      peace

      richard haase in nyc

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Ian 
        To: Civic 
        Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:02 PM
        Subject: [Mb-civic] To Lyle

        Lyle:

        Blessings and Peace.

        Simply for the record, I think I know where you came up with the "150,000" number.  If so, you are mixing things up.

        Revelation states that, just after the "church" is Raptured (leaving no "Christians" on earth), 144,000 people (not 150,000) - 12,000 from each of the 12 original tribes of Israel - will become "super-evangelists," and will bring as many or more people "to Christ" during the "end times" (i.e., the last seven years) than believed in Christ prior to the Rapture - perhaps 1,000,000,000 or more.

        Feel free to ignore or disdain Scripture.  But when you do cite it, please try to do so correctly.

        Peace.

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