[Mb-civic] EMAIL WITH A FRIEND

[Cheeseburger]

Re:  EMAIL WITH A FRIEND


Ian wrote:

======
I was intrigued by one of your comments.  You said: "Spirituality is the
only future and that wont come from religion. God or the Gods are playing
too many tricks. It can only come from within. We had a chance in the 60's
and we were not strong enough to overcome the dark forces.  Now they seem 
to be on both sides of the aisle."

As a minister, I would be remiss in not asking: have you considered the
possibility that the very approach used in the 60s, and that you are
suggesting now again - "it can only come from within" - is the very reason
WHY you "were not strong enough to overcome the dark forces?"

 >From the Judeo-Christian perspective, this "come from within" approach is
the very approach that STRENGTHENS the "dark forces" AGAINST the positive 
spirituo-religious forces that might avail against them.
========


Let's go over it, one can not fight a "spiritual war" against "darkness" if 
one is not full of "light" on the inside to begin with.

One *can*, but the internal preparatory "enlightening" only makes one 
stronger in both the short and long run

Your premise of such a "judeo-christianic" perspective which entails "the 
light coming from outside, God, to the inside of a human", continues to 
eliminate the argument of "free will", which is strewn throughout the bible 
somewhere.

It is that "free will" from *within* a human that must *first* choose the 
"light" over the "darkness" for (usually) any help from "God's Power" 
coming from the exterior to bolster the strength of the interior.

Jesus once said something like "if you had the faith of a mustard seed, you 
could say to the mountain 'be gone' and the mountain would be removed.

Such "faith" comes from inside, not from God.

If such internal machinations are not in place to begin with "inside", you 
can yell at the mountain all day long and most likely "external forces" are 
not going to help you,

By the way, I yelled at a mountain all day long and commanded it and it 
just stood there and stared at me.

I also prayed to Everyone.  God, the Devil, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, 
Jesus, everyone.  Nobody came to even mildly help my mother and father who 
died of the worst cancer known to mankind and a simple bedsore.

Nobody.

The only one I found standing between the forces of "darkness" and the 
tragic fates of my people was myself.

Unfortunately, I was just not enough.

All "light" that might appear within the human experience certainly is not 
born from solely "within", but it is that "inner" "light" that gives us 
measly humans the strength to fight seemingly invincible forces that 
apparently surround almost everything good we endeavor to accomplish.

If anything, that accomplishment of any sort of "inner" "light" only pisses 
off any "dark forces" hanging around as it winds up being more than they 
bargained for.

There is no such thing as "spirituo-religious".  They are 2 separate terms 
which collide in eternal struggle and opposition.




=========
Yes, I know that many (perhaps most) non-believers have a dim view of
"religion," due to the way that all of them have been bastardized, co-opted
and apostasized.  However, I reiterate that "Religion is about laws and
behavior; faith is about a relationship with God (and Christ)".
=======


Again, Christ, albeit it may be otherwise in reality, has wound up being a 
"minor figure" in the religions of most of this world's populations who 
simply do not even consider him as a player in their "faiths".

The "judeo-christianic" religion still remains one of the least populated 
ones, if we go by population numbers on the planet.

Faith is about unzipping your pants and putting your balls on the frying pan.

Sometimes God shows up to "save you", and sometimes he doesn't.

Many times I have found that I myself have to simply take my balls out of 
the frying pan, tuck them back into my pants, and zip them up.

My "faith" is still there, and yes indeed I do believe in "miracles" (no 
matter what religion one belongs to) but I remember constantly the old 
adage of "God helps those who help themselves".



=======
In this regard, I, too, have serious concerns and misgivings about what has
come to be called "religion."  But that does not change my feeling - and my
understanding of my faith - that putting one's faith in oneself and one's
"better nature" or "good conscience" is dangerously misguided, and only
gives "the enemy" (whomever or whatever you perceive him/it to be) more
"fuel for the fire."  It is only when we put our faith in God - and refrain
from attempting to use our own efforts (spiritual or otherwise) - that the
"dark forces" might be overcome.
==========


I understand your directly above argument.

However, if I had completely followed it unwaveringly and with blind faith, 
in several circumstances of my life, I would have died, struck down by the 
"dark forces", and not be sitting here typing this to you.

The "judeo-christianic" bible is such an interesting thing, depending upon 
which version you get of it, and excluding the 80 books left out of it upon 
its "Creation" by the Vatican and the Church of England.

In one verse it will state something like "By faith ye are saved, not by 
works, lest any man should boast".

Yet, in another, it will state "What is faith without works to prove them?"

God is not going to strike down George W. Bush & Gang.

Although I could be wrong.

It is the faith in ourselves and our aspirations toward "making the 
universe a better place to live" in the midst of this tyranny, death, 
destruction, suffering, and darkness that strengthens us internally and 
that allows the inner light to burn fiercely eradicating the illusions and 
crafts of the "dark forces".

God is not going to the voting polls in one week.

Although I could be wrong.

Having "the ultimate faith" in one's God could surely not be a bad thing, 
at least if he was a "good" God.

But "refraining from attempting to use our own efforts (spiritual or 
otherwise)" in the face of "the dark forces" and instead relying "solely on 
God", has often, throughout History, proven nothing short of Suicide.

If one, say, could perhaps "trancend" all earthly things and become 
"enlightened" as say Jesus or Buddha or whomever, then, yes, it might be 
that all one would have to do to "overcome the dark forces" was sit quietly 
on your living room furniture and let God do his work.

However, as it says also "For all have sinned and come short of the glory 
of God".

Indeed, if one believes in that kind of stuff, we have.

*Many* of us, unfortunately, have not become "totally enlightened" where we 
can easily and completely put our complete "faith in God" and "the mountain 
will be removed because we have the mere faith of a mustard seed".

Some of us have found, fortunately and unfortunately, that we must find 
that "inner light" within ourselves, pick up the gun beside the table which 
we abhor, and blow the guy's brains out who has broken into our apartment 
and threatening to slit our wife's and childrens' throats.

And that is not to say or even mildly infer that "God" is not on the ball, 
but rather that he, indeed, often works in "strange ways".

Without the "inner light" and the "exterior extension" of it manifesting in 
our own works, we often wind up being, as Jesus once described, "neither 
hot nor cold, nothing I can really work with...".

Faith in "God" is wonderful.  One must overcome the "inner darkness" before 
one can often reach out to "God" and "Blind Faith" to begin with.

It is apparently "free will" that "God" often leaves that battle to in the 
first place.

I'm sure he's there "watching", but I just have a sneaking suspicion that 
he wants to see what we do before he "steps in".

Is it not the true measure of character to be able to overcome by oneself 
one's own internal demons, or has God just been training us to be faithful 
chia pets, unable to battle "the dark forces" without first checking which 
verse is proper to invoke...?


=======
This does not mean idle worship (pun intended); i.e., simply praying and
hoping that things will change.  Certainly, even Christians (and other
believers) have an obligation to be active in trying to effect change for
the betterment of all people.
========


Ah well, hehe, if I had read that directly above paragraph sooner, I could 
have saved myself the trouble of writing that above dissertation, lol.



========
But to suggest that "God or the Gods are playing too many tricks," and that 
we can - or even should - somehow attempt to hinder God from His work 
(whether or not we are happy about the outcome of that work: "His ways are 
not our ways") would seem to engender flagrant arrogance or "pride" - the 
deadliest of all sins.
=========


Can you, or anyone, *really* sit there with a straight face and tell me 
that a 4 year old little beautiful girl who wandered out from her yard and 
the watchful eye of a parent and got run over by a dump truck was "God's 
Will" or that "God wanted her in Heaven now" or "Everything happens for a 
*Reason*", etc etc etc...?

I'll have to disagree.

On such a beautiful planet that various men and women and "dark forces" 
have managed to turn into a living hell often with so much destruction, 
suffering, deaths, maimings, deceptions, treachery, you name it, it's here, 
"God" is obviously just too busy sometimes to watch over every 4 year old 
child chasing a colored ball out into the street.

Seeking "inner light" and acting on such quests "externally" is not 
necessarily "hindering God from his works", but rather pulling our share 
finally, as we were intended to do in the first place before we got stuck 
in this pit of lies, illusions, and deceptions on this world of death.

"Someone" is obviously playing "Tricks" from "The Top".

If it is not "God", then, for one reason or another, he is at least 
allowing it to occur.

A "test"? one might say.........??

True, it might be, or just a laboratory experiment by some invisible ufo 
aliens or something.  Who knows....

I don't find a dead squashed 4 year old girl an amusing test.

If I had been there, I would have most likely saved her, as God, the Devil, 
Whomever, obviously just sat there and watched it occur.


=======
Peace.
=======


Indeed.  If Peace were only truly possible.  What a thing that would be.

But apparently God seldom has use for Peace either, and has left that job 
also up to us.

I'm sure, Ian, that "he" is standing around somewhere, and that, yes, maybe 
you are right, maybe this is some gigantic beyond our ability to conceive 
test or something, but I can't conceive of a God that would let a 4 year 
old be squashed by a dump truck chasing a pretty ball, nor a priest who 
would get up at a funeral and say "It was God's will, be comforted, she is 
in Heaven now with him, God works in mysterious ways", and not crack up 
laughing at the preposterousness of such blasphemy toward The Truth.

We may not be able to see "The Truth" as good as God can, but I'll be 
d*mned if I'm going to sit on a bus bench and watch while a 4 year old girl 
gets squashed by a truck, and rely on "my faith solely" to save her *ss.

Surely, along these lines, one's "Faith" surely strengthens and guides one.

It is that "inner light" that is the base of the salvation of one's soul, 
however, that brings the "forces of evil" to their knees, and gives true 
character to the role of suffering and death we humans have been thrust into.

In "the 60's", it was that seeking and cultivation of that "inner light" 
that "almost changed the world and made it a better place to live in".

If I were you, while promoting "Faith In God", I would *definitely* be 
promoting that "inner light" stuff as well, as, really, how could we go 
wrong if we have both of them at work.......


p.s.:  In "the 60's", it wasn't "Faith In God" that the Right Wing Of 
America saw in various people, it was that "Inner Light", that 
"Enlightenment" beginning to take form and shine forth.  They recognized it 
for what it was, an actual intellectual and spiritual revolution heading 
straight toward "The Light".

They squashed it like a bug.

And even today "the 60's" remains "A Joke" in many circles, because it was 
specifically designed to be forever defamed as such by those who had no 
interest whatsoever in seeing such "realms of enlightenment" taking root in 
a society which they had been training to be good consumers, uneducated 
voters, and blind advocates of authoritarian pecking orders.

Pot smoking hippies flower children tree hugging socialist commie long 
haired irresponsible over-sexed athiest gypsies.

We bear those "scars", and jabs, and labels, even today, some of us.

And it remains =America's= tragic loss for being so faithful to what they 
are told to believe, and one reason we are in the predicaments we enjoy so 
greatly in this shining bright modern age.


F*ck the Right Wing.  They screwed America and all its Children.

I just had to add that last one because I'm in such a good mood.

:)



Cheeseburger

- Where has the sparrow gone now that I need its song.