[Mb-civic] Re: losing customers

[Barbara Siomos]

Discussions, debating that is what it is all about... What a world this
would be IF everyone had the same view point on varying issues in our
world. I enjoy your writings Ian as well as madbakers.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that
matter." ~

Martin Luther King
>From: "Ian" <ialterman at nyc.rr.com> 
>To: <mb-civic at islandlists.com> 
>Subject: Re: [Mb-civic] Re: losing customers madbaker: 
I sincerely apologize if something I said caused you to believe that you
are somehow my "enemy." Not true. Nor am I in any way trying to "score
points" in any sort of "competition" with you vis-a-vis our differing
beliefs. Indeed, if I am a part of something that is causing people to
leave Civic, I would leave it myself so as to cause no further damage.
But, as Michael and Karen point out, I do not think that either of us is
doing so. We are disagreeing - if sometimes somewhat vigorously - but
that does not put us in competition or make us enemies or mean that
either of us is contributing to the downfall of Civic.
 
>From a political perspective, I doubt that you and I are very far apart
at 
all: indeed, I "enjoy" (though that may not be the right word) and
generally 
support your cynical view of the current geo-politik. Indeed, I may
actually believe it's even worse than YOU posit, because my political
leanings are probably even more "conspiracy theorist" than yours. 
>From a "religious" perspective, it is clear that we come from two very 
different places. But the fact that we disagree does not - and should
not - define any "relationship" we have via Civic. Heck, we could get
even MORE "down and dirty" in our "mutual mud-slinging" (LOL), and that
would still not mean anything more than that we continue to disagree,
and are unlikely to change the other one's views on the issue. 
Rest assured that I welcome, indeed cherish, your opinions, even when I
fervently disagree with them. And if ever we meet, I would greet you
like a brother, with a huge hug and a big smile. And they would both be
genuine. 
Peace. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Baker" <karen.baker2 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Michael Butler" <michael at michaelbutler.com>; "Ginger Baker" 
<jabaka at futurenet.co.za> 
Cc: "Governance" <michael at michaelbutler.com>; "Civic" 
<mb-civic at islandlists.com> 
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:19 PM
Subject: [Mb-civic] Re: losing customers 
it's what makes me stay-how absurd to think we would all agree-or really
how boring-duality-bring it on-its great good theater- good dialogue-the
beginning - the spoken word-your exchange is all that-xok --- Michael
Butler <michael at michaelbutler.com> wrote: 
Mad, 
Don¹t fret. No one has left because of what you write. They may not
agree 
but differences are important to be seen. Besides they are not
customers, they are friends or friends of friends. 
Michael 

--Don't persuade people to accept an argument Get people to trust their
own judgment.