[Mb-civic] religion

[Ian]

Cheeseburger:

Within your "diatribe," you make some very good points.

You note that "they have been manipulated by their leaders for so long that
they have completely forgotten the good parts of any scriptures..."  This is
one of my main beefs regarding "mainstream" Christianity; the apostasy of
both the Catholic and Protestant churches, and the corrupt teachings that
have been going on.  Americans have a lot to say (correctly) about how a
relatively small number of Muslim leaders have "hijacked" the Qu'ran in
order to serve narrow, even violent views.  Yet I don't hear American
Christians talking about how a much larger number of leaders have "hijacked"
Christianity to serve narrow, unloving, unforgiving and ultimately
un-Christian (if not usually violent) views.

You also note the "good samaritan" - as you point out, a critical example
that was kept in Scripture for a reason.

You also note the incident in which someone was casting out demons in Jesus'
name, but was not a disciple.  This passage is worth quoting: "Now John
answered Him, saying 'Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting
out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.'
But Jesus said, 'Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My
name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.  For he who is not against us is
on our side."  Mark 9:38-40.

Finally, I want to paraphrase you at length because, again, you are so
correct and it warrants repeating: "No matter how you slice it, mainstream
Christianity has so very long to go to ever even approach catching up to
Jesus Himself, much less His actual teachings.  And they're so busy
condemning everyone but themselves that they have absolutely no time left to
look into it.  And they sit in the front pew every Sunday morning and
profess their piety, purity and charity."

Bravo!  I could not have put it better myself.

Peace.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cheeseburger" <maxfury at granderiver.net>
To: <mb-civic at islandlists.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:36 PM
Subject: [Mb-civic] religion


> Re:  religion
>
> Richard Haase wrote:
>
> =====
> well its also a matter of interpretation robin
> =====
>
> A vast understatement that has caused MILLIONS of innocent people their
> lives throughout History.
>
>
> =======
> when christ says there is no way to the father but through me
> that can be taken to mean that one cannot reach god
> but by leading a godly christlike way of life
> =======
>
> One can "interpret" almost anything in the world almost any way one
> chooses.  However in this case:
>
> No.
>
> In "Mainstream Christianity", as well as "The Bible" itself, it is rather
> very specific that "he who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as lord and saviour
> is 'doomed to eternal damnation' ".
>
> Jesus himself made it quite clear that he was "the way, the truth, and the
> life" and that "none come unto my father except through me".
>
> All other "surrounding" texts make it quite clear that "THIS" is not only
> "The Religion" but the *Crux* of the entire religion to begin with.
>
> "Salvation through Jesus Christ".
>
> Everything else wound up being cake frosting in comparison with that
> central dogma.
>
> After all, Jesus was "the son of god" himself.  Sent to "save humanity
from
> their sins" by "sacrificing himself" on "the altar" before "his father"
and
> the "dregs of humanity".
>
> Again, if you do not believe that rather "central" concept of "Mainstream
> Christianity", which avows that one must "recognize and admit that Jesus
> was the son of God, died on the cross for the sins of humanity, and that
> there is no way to Heaven except through him" you're basically, whether
> they tell you to your face or not, blackballed from "Mainstream
Christianity".
>
>
> ==========
> nowhere in the bible does it say that the text is the unpurgated word of
> god nor that every word should be followed absolutely literally in its
> simplest as opposed to broader broadest connotation
> =========
>
> Beep.   Wrong.    Guess again.
>
> It says *EXACTLY THAT* just about **EVERYWHERE** throughout the bible.
>
> The End.
>
>
> ======
> a virtuous atheist is acceptable in the sight of god
> no question
> ======
>
> If you can sell that idea to "Mainstream Christianity", there's a monorail
> subway system on the moon I would like you to buy.
>
> Even though even Jesus himself once said, among so many other things,
> something like "Only my Father in Heaven can judge the people", nobody in
> "Mainstream Christianity" will touch your above statement with a 10 foot
> pole nor ever even *mildly* consider it as "rational" without sticking a
> knife in your back at the same time.
>
>
> ======
> and god didnt make one billion budhiists and a billion muslims
> to toss them into hell
> =======
>
> If they "don't accept Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior,
> confessing him to be the son of god, born of virgin, taught, crucified,
> risen from the dead on the 3rd day, brought here to die for the sins of
> mankind", then "Mainstream Christianity" dooms them to Hell without a
> reprieve, for the rest of eternity.
>
> The End again.
>
>
> =====
> that is the lie of elements of organized christianity
> who have tried to decrease the size of the flock of god
> at their whim
> ======
>
> *Those*, among others, are the "lies" told by =many=, not just "organized
> christianity", and have been told and continue to be told for various
> sundry reasons, among others as simply an inheritance throughout "the
ages".
>
> And which have, again, cost MILLIONS of innocent people their lives
> throughout History.
>
> And continue to cost them their lives even today.
>
>
> Ah, but it's just "a religion", whadya got to lose...
>
> We could forget "Mainstream Christianity" and go into a discussion of
> India's "Caste System" and open a REAL can of worms, LOL.....
>
> Wanna piss people in India off and gamble with your life...?  Just berate
> their "Caste System" as archaic and barbarian or somesuch and sit back and
> see who grabs for their knife first.
>
>
> All in all, "Mainstream Christianity" today, in America, is full of shit.
>
> They have been for a long time.
>
> They sit around and even elect Presidents these days.
>
> They have been manipulated by their "Leaders" for so long that they have
> almost completely forgotten the "good parts" of any "scriptures", old or
> new testaments, and remain putty in the hands of those who "Interpret The
> Word Of God" for them, who many have been usurpers, scoundrels, and false
> prophets since before the time Jesus Christ even arrived in some manger.
>
> And continue to be so.
>
> Many will backbite you, blackball you, ostracize you, gossip you to death,
> lie about you, and ruin both you, your business, and your reputation,
until
> you and your family decide to just pack up your bags and leave town, if
you
> don't immediately agree with them 100 percent on "all points of religion"
> and kiss their ass.
>
> And then they'll telephone their people in the next town and tell them
> you're coming.
>
> There *are* =some= "True" Christians still hanging around here and there
on
> planet earth.  Those people I like.  They don't cram their religion down
> your throat, and they are more akin to "The Good Samaritan" (there was a
> whole little story there about him).  He stopped to help some people who
> needed help, he didn't tell them they were going to hell if they didn't
> believe in Jesus etc etc etc, etc, he finished helping them, then walked
on
> down the road.
>
> That was *it*.  *It* was apparently so significant that *it* even made it
> into "the bible".
>
> That reminds me of the story when one day Jesus was walkin along with his
> disciples, it was May 7th, I believe, about 3 in the afternoon, and his
> disciples saw someone off to the side "casting out demons" and "using
> Jesus' name" to do it.  Jesus' disciples got all pissed off and turned to
> Jesus and said something like "Look at that asshole, Jesus, he's casting
> out demons and using your name to do it but HE'S NOT WITH US.  We want to
> go beat the crap out of him NOW...!!"  I think Jesus said something like
> "Hey, don't worry about it" and kept walking down the road.
>
> All in all, no matter how you slice it, "Mainstream Christianity", among
so
> many others, has so very long to go to ever even approach catching up to
> Jesus himself, much less his actual "teachings".
>
> And they're so busy condemning everyone but themselves that they have
> absolutely no time left to look into it.
>
> Although they sit on the front pew of the church every Sunday morning and
> profess their piety, purity, and charity to whomever can still stomach
> their licentious ravings without puking.
>
> Hey, for some of them, it is all they have ever known, it is all they
have,
> shallowness or not.  Often I cannot fault them for that.  But as for the
> rest, they knew better eons ago.
>
> I once wrote something like "Seek the light, my son, for the darkness is
> everywhere and seeks your soul....".  It was a Thursday, about 4:30
> pm.  Jesus was in the next town turning water into wine listening to his
> mom nag him.
>
> Today is no exception.
>
> Nor will Tomorrow be.........
>
>
>
> Cheeseburger
>
> - Where has the sparrow gone now that I need its song.
>
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